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Author Topic: LiveCode Community Edition  (Read 7510 times)

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Offline docmann

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LiveCode Community Edition
« on: April 12, 2013, 05:25:33 PM »
As a reminder to those who might be interested, RunRev has just released the first edition of their new open source version of LiveCode. It is now completely free and without restriction for open source projects and there is still a commercial product for those that wish to develop non-open source products. The good news is that you can use the OS version to develop pretty much anything you want (even commercial) and never pay a fee of any kind until you decide to release the final product. As with other open source projects, the full non-commercial source code is available to anyone with the skills to hack around with it, making additions and changes as they might see fit. The only requirement in that regard is that you too would have to share your source code with any changes also.

One code base, four platforms currently targeted:
Mac, Windows, iOS, Android

http://www.runrev.com/products/Open-Source/Which-Version-Do-I-Need

The whole open source thing is very new to them, so there may still be some snags or small bumps in the road as they move forward. Also to note that it's a very different kind of language and requires a whole different development mentality, but I wholeheartedly recommend it.

I've been using all versions since 2004 and almost exclusively since 2006 and have *never* found a development tool that can beat the productivity level that I've found with it. It is by far the simplest and very best language I've even seen when it comes to text and data processing... nothing even remotely comes close, IMO.

...your mileage may vary, but it's worth checking into if you've never tried it.

-Doc-
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 05:26:16 PM by docmann »
-Doc-

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Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2013, 11:48:43 PM »
Here are a few very simple examples of just how easy text handling is with LC:
First of all, we need to set the itemdelimiter (or itemdel) to whatever you wish it to be, then we will do some simple parsing...

1st example:
Code: [Select]
TargetData = "this is a test of string processing capabilities"

set the itemdel to space
 put word 4 of TargetData into myVariable  -- myVariable now contains "test"
 put char 2 to 3 of item 4 of TargetData into myVariable  -- myVariable now contains "es"
 put the last char of item 6 of TargetData into myVariable -- myVariable now contains "g"

2nd example :
Code: [Select]
-- myVariable contains: "this|is|a|test|of|string|processing|capabilities"

 replace "|" with comma in myVariable
-- effectively changes all text found in the container variable from "piped" to csv format.

3rd example:
Code: [Select]
-- myVariable contains: "this,is,a,test,of,string,processing,capabilities"

 replace "," with tab in myVariable 
-- same as using replace comma with tab in myVariable
-- effectively changes all matching text found in the container variable from "," to tabbed format.

4th example:
Code: [Select]
-- myVariable contains "this is a field of data,6495,this is another field of data"

set the itemdel to comma
   replace "data" with "roses" in myVariable
   put "." after char 2 of item 2 in myVariable
   put "$" before char 1 of item 2 in myVariable
   replace item 3 of myVariable with "Isn't this fun!" in myVariable

-- myVariable now contains "this is a field of roses,$64.95,Isn't this fun!"

Okay... big deal you say?
Go ahead and do them yourself using -any- language you wish to use and post your code for comparison. ;)

True story:
On one of my more recent projects, I needed to convert a CSV file containing around 150,000 individual records (rows) with 30-40 data fields, that was exported from Excel into a tab delimited format. In each record or row, there were both textual and numeric data fields, plus some that were mix & match with both... and the textual data fields in any given row could be of almost any length, containing whatever you can possibly imagine.

The HUGE problem:
Unfortunately, the crappy MS Excel specifications for CSV file storage allows for any number of embedded CRLF's (and other unwanted garbage characters) directly into individual cell values... just as long as the cell data itself is delimited within quotes. That means when you open a tab delimited text file that has been converted with such crap, it automatically breaks the data into a separate line anywhere a CRLF is found, rendering the resulting file as a useless mess.

Now if you are a bona-fide Excel guru, you can build some VB based conversion routines into the spreadsheet (maybe requiring a few hundred lines of code) or even hire an Excel guru to do such a thing. You might also pay someone to manually "fix" the data, allowing the file to be exported correctly from Excel eventually. Finally, you might use one of the "traditional" languages that requires large amounts code to do simplest text processing.

LiveCode Solution:
Before doing the actual conversion via code, I manually added four "@@@@" characters to each cell of the very last column of data in the unaltered CSV file. Those were to be used as a marker for locating the CRLF's that I actually wanted to keep as genuine line endings.

After reading the entire file containing the "@@@@" characters into a single variable, my entire work code used to repair the otherwise huge mess, while also making the conversion into a tabbed format went like this:

Code: [Select]
function FixThisMess
 replace quote with empty in myVariable
 -- replace quote with space can also be used for data cells that might also
 -- contain embedded quotes, but that is an entirely different process
 replace crlf with empty in myVariable
 replace "@@@@" with CRLF in myVariable
 replace comma with tab in myVariable
 
 -- call the routine to write the newly repaired and converted data to disk
end FixThisMess

Four simple lines of code sure beats the non-LiveCode options that are available.
I again challenge anyone to post an easier solution using any language you wish. ;)

-Doc-
-Doc-

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Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2013, 12:33:49 PM »
Quote
Four simple lines of code sure beats the non-LiveCode options that are available.
I again challenge anyone to post an easier solution using any language you wish. ;)

Hi Doc ..
Is this some kind of joke ?
It can be done in other languages in 4 lines of code to.
sorry but i don't see anything fantastic here...
Something similar of way of coding you can find in
Supernova project...
But this is just mine opinion..
however i will download this LiveCode and see
what is this all about ... ;)

Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2013, 01:24:56 PM »
Quote
Is this some kind of joke ?
It can be done in other languages in 4 lines of code to.
sorry but i don't see anything fantastic here...

Aurel,
I'm not sure why you go out of your way to be argumentative about LiveCode, every time I post something about it. You've made it plain at least a half dozen times and on several different forums, that you don't like it and that's just fine. No problemo.

But with that being the case, why don't you simply ignore whatever might be posted, rather that posting something negative, each and every time?

My whole reason for posting the examples is simply to show just how easy parsing and text manipulation is with LC... I'm not trying to "convert" anyone, as I simply do not care what language or product that you or the next person uses.

As for being a joke? Nope... it's no joke, but now that you've jumped out there, making the claim, then go ahead and post your code for the other languages that you can do exactly the same things that I've shown in all of my examples, with four lines of code of less.

Talk is cheap, so come on, let's see it.  8)

-Doc-
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 01:46:07 PM by docmann »
-Doc-

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Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2013, 02:09:18 PM »
Hi Doc... :)
No Doc nothing contra... ;D
But
when i download this thing... ::)
So i start instal, and it looks that all goes well..
Instalation is over and i finally try to run program...
but hey ...Live Code need some sort of account  ::)
what is this????
what kind of account i need if you say that this version is free
without any limitation, right ?
do you can explain to me what is this anyway?

Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2013, 02:30:34 PM »
Ok ...
i return to liveCode download and create account..
but when i try to activate this account from downloaded
livecode distro.
i constantly receive server error... ::)

Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2013, 05:20:14 PM »
Ok ...
i return to liveCode download and create account..
but when i try to activate this account from downloaded
livecode distro.
i constantly receive server error... ::)

I installed it a couple of days ago... using just the email address and the password I selected and had no problems at all. I honestly have no idea what kind of problem you have run into. At this point, although it is free and fully open source, they are still asking users to establish an account and password at no charge... the idea I think is to have an idea of how many folks are actually using it, along with a method of being able to remain in contact.

If I had to guess, the activation part of the open source Community version will go away before too long. Not sure that part was well thought out. Of course, anyone that wishes to and has the ability, can grab the source code and compile it without any need for activation if that's what they want... that *is* the coolest part about open source software. :)

-Doc-
-Doc-

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Offline BillBo

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2013, 11:50:12 AM »
docmann,


zlatkoCB will argue with anybody about anything, and
you cannot change his mind, even with evidence. Checkout
the miniBasic thread for the hassle the two of had.


Bill

Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2013, 01:56:40 PM »
Of course that i argue, who never argue have closed mind
and folow other people directions.
So stay cool and be yours!

By the way Doc knows me... ;D

Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2013, 03:51:22 PM »
It's no big deal, Mr. Bill...
We have been discussing and arguing points for quite a long time, so I'm accustomed to it... some have even called me hard-headed at times... not that I would agree with openly. (well, maybe I would)  ;)
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Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2013, 05:51:35 PM »
Billbo
What about miniBasic :o
I don't have nothing with miniBasic.
Infact it is interesting to see that someone like Bill
as he say 'defending' qb64 against my statment that
qb64 is not real native machine code compiler.

But another intersting point he use side,,,
but infact he is aa long time member on IW forum
(i am not sure if he is mamber of pyxia forum to).
but i dont see him that he 'defend' bad sides of EBasic
or other languages .

Offline BillBo

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2013, 09:39:13 PM »
zlatkoCB,

You know darn well your comments on the miniBasic topic.

Yes, I was a member of the old Pyxia site. I had bought
IBasic Standard 2.02D back in '05 and a few other things.
It's a damn good program. I haven't "defended" it, or
IWBasic, etc., because I haven't seen people try to step
on its toes like you did about QB64.

You stated, "Infact it is interesting to see that someone like Bill
as he say 'defending' qb64 against my statement that
qb64 is not real native machine code compiler." Every
damn program is  "real native machine code" or it would
not run. Native machine code is 1's and 0's. That's all
a computer understands.Bill
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 09:41:00 PM by BillBo »

Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2013, 01:19:08 AM »
fluffrabit explain what is the main thing about qb64 in
A couple issues I have with QB64

Offline zappa52

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2013, 01:40:50 AM »
Seems to me that just about any thread these 2 are in will end up being an argument about QB64.
Maybe a dedicated thread would be in order so as not to disrupt the original topics.

Offline stevenp

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2013, 04:23:23 PM »
Docmann,


I had bought Runtime Rev 3.5 and 4.0 (before it was renamed to LiveCode.) I found there was a lack of tutorials at the time (the book I bought on it was outdated and too simple.) So I never got to grips with it beyond simple things. It had more to do with lack of time and patience. There were many things about it that I found interesting and promising in fact I use an app created in it all the time at work (ScreenSteps).


My struggle came more with the fact that I thought in terms of traditional languages (C++\C#\VB,etc.) and found it hard to "think" in its different style of language.


The good thing about it going open source is that the adoption rate should sky rocket and consequently more code and tutorials should emerge.


I am definitely willing to give it another shot.

Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2013, 08:44:03 PM »
Hey Steven, good to "see" ya again!

LiveCode is definitely not for everyone and sometimes it seems to be especially difficult for those coming from the more traditional languages.

Heh, I originally used it for one tiny project and then all but set it aside for the next 3 years or so... just couldn't wrap my mind around it very well.

Then finally I had the need to do a completely different group of projects. all of which that revolved around fairly massive amounts of data and/or text processing and basically gave up trying to use  the more popular languages...

I was unable to find a suitable solution for the need at hand and unwilling to continuously  re-create the "wheel" (sometimes several times a week), so I again tried Rev/LiveCode. That time around I finally reached a place where it "clicked" for me and I have seldom looked back since.

I do think you're right though... now that it has become open source, everything surrounding the language should flourish and grow as more folks become familiar with it.

-Doc-
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Offline stevenp

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2013, 05:16:45 PM »
So, since the language "clicked" with you do you find that you are more productive with it than you were with traditional languages?

Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2013, 08:07:34 PM »
So, since the language "clicked" with you do you find that you are more productive with it than you were with traditional languages?

That sir, is a genuine understatement.
For me personally, there isn't a language on the planet that I've found where I can be more productive than with LiveCode.

I still use Creative every now and even AutoIt from time to time, just because I still enjoy them, but that's absolutely for the fun and definitely not from a productivity motivation. These days I no longer have to worry with work related projects, but LiveCode is almost 100% the "go to" language for pretty much anything that it is capable of handling.

-Doc-
-Doc-

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Offline stevenp

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 05:07:49 PM »
I've finally decided to put forth the effort to learn LiveCode. It should be a fun experience.


Doc, hopefully we'll be able to talk about this on this forum (I'd like to see more activity on CodingMonkeys.)

Offline docmann

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Re: LiveCode Community Edition
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 07:02:43 PM »
Although I don't do a lot of coding of any kind these days, you know I'll be glad to help any way I can Steven. :)

As far as learning LiveCode is concerned, I posted this message elsewhere just yesterday, which you or someone else may find to be helpful:

Quote
A new "LiveCode" learning resource that has become available...maybe not so surprisingly, named LiveCode University:

http://university.livecode.com/

From a quick read at the site, it is based on the course that has been taught at BYU for several years now and is suitable for absolute, complete beginners to programming in general. There seems to be a free trial including the free Community edition of LiveCode and the entire course is available for $50 USD.

I've been coding with LC for several years now and still plan on taking advantage of the course when I have the time and funding... I'm sure it will be plenty worthwhile.

-Doc-
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