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Author Topic: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind  (Read 376 times)

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Offline peaslee

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Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« on: July 28, 2014, 11:04:48 PM »
There is a big push to get young people, especially girls, into programming. It would seem to me that IWBasic would be an ideal introduction.
Bruce Peaslee

Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2014, 10:02:01 AM »
big push ...but question is with what ?
python
go
closure
java
C#

there is no any basic on that 'pushing' list.

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2014, 10:10:09 AM »
Agreed, but Delphi is probably easier to learn. Where cost is concerned, however, IW wins. To get the newest Borland (Embarcadero now) product will set the programmer back a good chunk.
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline Tumultus

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2014, 12:55:32 PM »
Well, I guess many people have either settled with their tools of choice or moved on to more mainstream environments. I, for instance, have switched all my programming entirely over to MS Visual Studio. There, I find everything I need, starting from excellent documentation to user help forums and customer support. Also, it allows me to not only create standard desktop apps but develop as well for Modern UI and Windows Phone.

So, yeah, I am good! :)

Offline GWS

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2014, 02:52:53 PM »
I'm pleased you've found something you like.

I tried it a while back, but didn't fancy all the bloat software it loaded on my machine, but it is nice to have an impressive professional system - but then Microsoft have huge teams of programmers to make that happen. :)

I never liked all the Oopy stuff either, and they didn't have any 2D and 3D graphics facilities built in either. They had to rely on 3rd party stuff for that.   I'd be interested to hear what they are offering in those areas at the moment.

Did you buy the Visual Studio software, or are you using the free version?

All the best, :)

Graham

Tomorrow may be too late ...

Offline Tumultus

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2014, 04:28:10 PM »
With the XNA Game Studio, you wouldn't face much difficulties when developing 2D/3D stuff. As far as I know, it is free but I have never used it myself. You could and can do some basic 2D/3D programming even with the Express editions. In fact, Microsoft has a lot of sample code up there for some smaller games.

I am using the 2013 Professional edition. It was the first one that actually satisfied me with the price: $499.00. I don't need the MSDN subscription, so, that's some money saved right there. :)

Bevore I bought that, I used the Express Editions but there was just no unified feel to it since you had to launch (and install) every single language seperately. With the commercial version, you have everything in one single interface and you pick your language when creating a new project. And mixing languages within a project is also possible. This helps if you're working in a team - everyone can pick his favorite.

I know, the "bloatware" sucks but I found myself needing some of that bloat quite a lot even though I initially thought I will never use that.  ;D

Offline billhsln

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2014, 06:01:06 PM »
Until some one actually says that IWB is no longer supported, I will continue to use it.  So far it is the only Basic like language that allows me to write fixed format files.  I don't really need one that does graphics, since I don't really do games.  I have lots of need to convert tab/comma/what ever to fixed format (field has 20 chars, next has 10, next has 30, etc) or in other words, there is no delimiter.  Without that capability, the language is pretty useless to me.  I have looked at the Visual Basic latest version and it is just not what I would consider Basic.


Bill

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2014, 07:12:15 PM »
Well, I guess many people have either settled with their tools of choice or moved on to more mainstream environments. I, for instance, have switched all my programming entirely over to MS Visual Studio. There, I find everything I need, starting from excellent documentation to user help forums and customer support. Also, it allows me to not only create standard desktop apps but develop as well for Modern UI and Windows Phone.

So, yeah, I am good! :)

How is the graphics support in MSVS? Also, what is the price tag?

I have found that IWB and Delphi play nice together. Those of us who got in under the wire with D7PE get most of the tools in Enterprise, along with the support from Embarcadero. Now there are no personal editions.
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline GWS

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2014, 09:06:00 PM »
Phew ! .. a bit expensive  :)

XNA looks quite nice but tricky to use, intended mainly for C# .. and
Quote
Microsoft has confirmed to MVP (Most Valuable Professionals) that it will cease support for this version (XNA Game Studio 4.0) of XNA in April 2014 and that there are not any plans to release any further versions of the XNA platform.[19] ExtremeTech, Gamasutra, and IndieGames were among the first to report this discontinuation of XNA.

It seems you can't rely on Microsoft to keep any of their products going for very long.  I read recently that they are withdrawing support for Windows 7 this year - which seems ridiculous.

By the time people have scrambled up a product learning curve, they've scrapped it, and moved on to the next money-maker.

Best wishes, :)

Graham
Tomorrow may be too late ...

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2014, 09:21:15 PM »
IWB is sounding better all the time.
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline Rock Ridge Farm

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2014, 08:38:44 AM »
IW is alive and well - I am working (in the background) on new stuff. Takes me a bit of time since I will not release anything new that does not work properly. Larry Mc does a great job keeping the web site functional and doing Documentation.
He also supports the designer (which he wrote).

Anyway - we are still here and will be here as long as Larry Mc and I can continue - long time I hope but we are a couple of old dudes.

We do not have the drama of the past but a vision for the future.

Larry Sikes

Larry Sikes
IonicWind Software
http://ionicwind.com

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2014, 12:57:54 PM »
Good to hear. This old dude hopes we all have a long life to look forward to ;)
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline stevenp

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2014, 11:48:15 AM »
Windows 7 is supported until 2020 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle). XNA is no longer supported by Microsoft but there is an open source library that is 100% compatible called MonoGame.

Microsoft is notorious for pushing different technologies and preaching to their developers that it is the greatest and last thing they'll ever need to learn and then dropping it in a heart beat. I am working on a very large app for work that has been in development for around 5 years. We used Silverlight which is very nice in many respects but Microsoft, after pushing and pushing the technology and having a new version every year just dropped it without warning in 2011. We were already too far along to change technology but all Silverlight developers were furious. This is only one example. I know of dozens of other techs MS has done that with leaving the developers who invested time to learn their tech high and dry.

At this point C# is too integrated into Microsoft's ecosystem but for Window 8 they started to push C++ again putting C# into its #2 spot.

Moral of the story: if Microsoft touts the latest and greatest and they say its the end all and be all of technology and development - just run away from it. They will as soon as they get bored of it.

Offline Tumultus

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2014, 10:47:47 PM »
@stevenp:
Oh boy! What's with all the hate? Microsoft stopped development for Silverlight, however, you still can program using this technology. Even for end users, the Silverlight plugin is still available for download.

This sure means that you should reconsider to use this technology in future projects but, honestly, it doesn't render your current one useless. As far as I know, even Netflix still uses Silverlight for their player in the browser, so, don't worry, you (and the rest of your development team) can use it for some time to come.

On a side note, have a look around here and in other forums! There are a gazillion of (now) dead languages that see no further development anymore. Still, people use them because it works for them. I even see people still coding in VB6.0 and below.

I can understand that you prefer other development environments but keep in mind: different people have different needs. I started with VB .NET, learned my way around C# and also C++ and even today, I still can work on my old projects from then in VS 2013 without any problems. Seems like MS dropping technologies isn't as dramatic as you make it sound like after all. And, yes, I am on Windows 8.1! :)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 10:50:28 PM by Tumultus »

Offline stevenp

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2014, 12:35:25 PM »
What's with all the hate? I have been professionally developing with Microsoft for around 26 years and they are notorious for doing this. I guess you would have to be in our shoes. It looks like you are just focusing in languages themselves, I am referring to various Microsoft technologies that I have had to work with or we intended to utilize.


Technically Silverlight is supported until 2021 but that is not for bug fixes just security issues. In a professional environment and in very large companies there is a lot of backlash from products that are no longer officially supported. If you kept up on many of the blogs that deal with dropped Microsoft technologies you'd see my position is not unique.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 12:37:22 PM by stevenp »

Offline Tumultus

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 12:55:12 PM »
... I am working on a very large app for work that has been in development for around 5 years ...
... Microsoft ... just dropped it without warning in 2011 ...
... Technically Silverlight is supported until 2021 ...

Somehow, I am not getting what you're trying to say! I understand that you're working on a larger project involving Silverlight since 2009. You then go on saying that Microsoft dropped it without warning in 2011 but you also state that they offer support until 2021. Hmmm, ... now I am really confused! Did your Silverlight project stop working the minute Microsoft "dropped" the technology? That would surprise me because Silverlight is still part of my VS 2013 Professional.

I really don't get what you're moaning about! Honestly, that your entire development team worked on the project for 5 years already and that you're afraid because there will be no security updates anymore 7 years from now makes me really scratch my head! Keep in mind: your project would be11 years old by then and probably not up to tomorrow's standards anyway! You have 7 years to find a new tool that works for you and, as usual, Microsoft will offer extended support and usually, even their old technologies will remain for download well beyond that date.

You have 7 years to prepare yourself, so, collect what you need starting with the Silverlight runtimes and provide it with your project in an installer package.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 01:01:42 PM by Tumultus »

Offline billhsln

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 02:07:42 PM »
I think MS stopped support of MS Visual Foxpro back in 2009.  I am still writing in it and using it in production.


Bill

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 02:26:12 PM »
I think most major developers give plenty of time for the users or programmers to learn it to its fullest or to find out it was a total dud. If one or two languages and versions do all you want, then why upgrade unless the new version includes platform (OS) updates that the earlier version won't support?
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline zlatkoCB

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2014, 09:49:13 AM »
well i am in a position that i don't care about MS tech
i am just a hobby programmer and i use what i can..
i even don't care for win7 win8 or whatever
  i still use XP  :D

yes that is true ..really many many languages and forums
are dead or 'On the edge of dead' and the fact is that there
is no new and young people interested for programming.

i don't want waste my money on programming tools
because really there are planty of free stuff around almost
for anything.

Also i must say that i don't use IWB than from time to time
EBasic which work very well for me.
..someone says ..new features with development...
 i really don't know what kind of new features i need as a
hobby programmer  ::)

Offline stevenp

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 11:23:31 AM »
Tumultus, like I said, there will be no more bug fixes. There are some big bugs that need to be fixed that will not happen now. Security fixes are one thing, bug fixes are another.

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 12:32:22 PM »
If I decide to learn a new language, it will likely be Python. Since I'm a Blenderite, that would seem the most productive step for me.
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline Tumultus

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2014, 06:48:26 PM »
Tumultus, like I said, there will be no more bug fixes. There are some big bugs that need to be fixed that will not happen now. Security fixes are one thing, bug fixes are another.

And as you also said: You and your development team are working on that SilverLight project since 2009. So, despite the bugs, you and your team kept developing for 5 years. This tells me that those bugs couldn't have possibly have a big impact on your project in the first place. Otherwise, you wouldn't have wasted so many years in man power and working hours.

If it would have been major bugs, I am certain that there would have been fixes provided by Microsoft but I assume that this are tiny issues for which you can either easily find workarounds or where you could simply ignore a build-in feature and code your own solution? I mean, come on, 5 years of development and only now you cry foul?

To give you a comparison: I bought EBasic a few months before it became freeware and then commercial again. When I bought it, the License agreement stated clearly free updates and support. Never did I see a single update nor did I get official support or security fixes from PT. Instead, he wanted me to rebuy that damn thing and then subscribe to his paid support forum membership.

Here you have your Silverlight environment, you know about the bugs (and possible workarounds) as well as about what it can do and what not. Besides that, you will get at least security updates, so, sorry but I really don't get your point!
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 06:54:48 PM by Tumultus »

Offline peaslee

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2014, 07:27:55 PM »
I bought 100 licenses at 50% thinking I could resell them at a profit. Then "Stir Paul" made it free, wiping out my investment. Well, I did sell one before that, but the guy wanted a refund   
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 07:28:20 PM by peaslee »
Bruce Peaslee

Offline Larry McCaughn

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2014, 07:54:18 PM »
Bruce, we both know he left a lot of people holding an empty bag full of empty promises.
Admin - Here and @ Ionic Wind Software Forums
Author of Custom Button Designer, Custom Chart Designer, Snippet Manager, and IWB+ (A Visual Designer for IWBasic 2.x/3.x)

Offline DrCharbonneau

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2014, 10:26:33 PM »
Bummer. I wanted to post an image of an editor glitch, but attachments are no more :(

Speaking of bugs... Whazzup wis dis?

http://www.hipforums.com/forum/index.php?/topic/456882-horrible-sci-fimystery-writing-a-chapter-from-my-latest-novel/page-2#entry7613920

The pic is here. Next time I'll upload the image to my art site...
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 10:31:44 PM by DrCharbonneau »
We have the right to believe whatever we want, still there is always an absolute truth. Dark matter isn't.  E=MC^2 only applies to the dimensions where light exists. F=MA is universal. The universe is a hairball. It was created by Fritz the Cat. Einstein called it spaghetti... after a row with Elsa.

Offline MikeHart

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2017, 03:03:40 AM »
I know it is an old topic but there are some Basic languages that are still running. App Game Kit. PureBasic. SpiderBasic. I even co sider our Cerberus X a Basic dialect. What they all share is that you can target multiple platforms. Not many will choose a language that is Windows only these days.

Online Blue Steel

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Re: Re: Moving on from Ionic Wind
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2017, 07:39:25 AM »
added another reply quoting mikes reply

I know it is an old topic but there are some Basic languages that are still running. App Game Kit. PureBasic. SpiderBasic. I even co sider our Cerberus X a Basic dialect. What they all share is that you can target multiple platforms. Not many will choose a language that is Windows only these days.

 

To link to us use this code/button on your site

http://www.codingmonkeys.com/images/cm_link.gif

ShoutBox!

 

Blue Steel

December 09, 2017, 02:46:53 AM
:) ty fingers crossed
 

Larry McCaughn

December 08, 2017, 04:10:56 PM
I'll give you a Shout out in the Shout Box for being able to put it back up.
 

lurkalot

September 20, 2017, 01:57:54 PM
Hey that's my job. Didn't choose this username for nothing you know.  :)
 

Larry McCaughn

September 19, 2017, 12:24:13 AM
lurking in the shadows, lurkalot.
 

lurkalot

September 16, 2017, 04:39:43 PM
Good evening all.  Where is everyone?
 

lurkalot

September 12, 2017, 12:57:36 PM
Good to hear, it's nice to see a empty error log. ;)
 

Blue Steel

September 12, 2017, 05:04:25 AM
running sites log files overnight heres the result (I know mainly spiners) "There are currently no error log entries." :)
 

lurkalot

September 12, 2017, 03:19:33 AM
Morning all.  :)
 

Blue Steel

September 12, 2017, 01:12:33 AM
Let it all out ..
these are the things I can't do without  ;)

MikeHart

September 11, 2017, 11:14:22 PM
SHOUT SHOUT  :)
 

GWS

September 11, 2017, 08:16:02 PM
Shouting is Go !  ;D
 

Blue Steel

September 11, 2017, 06:54:02 PM
gradually getting there
 

lurkalot

September 11, 2017, 05:22:46 PM
Yay, you found it.  ;)
 

Larry McCaughn

September 11, 2017, 01:07:13 PM
looks like you're making good progress
 

Blue Steel

September 07, 2017, 10:34:19 PM
yay recent topics are working again in the center of the home page :)
 

Larry McCaughn

July 12, 2017, 05:46:33 PM
Blue Steel is back running the show.  Maybe he'll be able to build some steam in the ole place!
 

Blue Steel

June 26, 2017, 04:58:41 AM
hope i didn't scare too many of you
 

Blue Steel

June 26, 2017, 04:58:12 AM
Boo, i'm still here alive and well , see my post in introductions

MikeHart

July 25, 2016, 01:43:24 AM
That sounds cool. Have to chekc out IWBasic in the next days.
 

Larry McCaughn

July 22, 2016, 11:47:00 PM
I'm hoping to issue a new maintenance release to the IWBasic 3.x IDE in the next few weeks and Larry Sikes has released an update to the Linux version of IWBasic and is currently working on the 64bit version of IWBasic.  Progress should speed up since he has retired and has apparently resolved his m

MikeHart

July 19, 2016, 02:53:02 PM
Anything interesting going on around BASIC?
 

Larry McCaughn

July 18, 2016, 09:14:12 AM
Hello Mike

MikeHart

July 16, 2016, 04:33:25 PM
Hi there all!
 

pistol350

June 24, 2016, 03:41:10 AM
Hello all!
I'm still around although less active!